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From: Randy Bush <randy@psg.com>
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To: "D. J. Bernstein" <djb@cr.yp.to>
Subject: Re: namedroppers mismanagement
References: <20000128015807.6574.qmail@cr.yp.to>
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Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 05:45:19 -0800

namedroppers@ops.ietf.org is the mailing list for the ietf dnsext wg.  see
<http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/dnsext-charter.html> for the wg charter.
messages should be on topics appropriate to the dnsext wg, which are various
discussion of the dns protocols or administrivia of the wg itself.  the list
is moderated.

calls for papers, announcements of events not directly relevant to the dns
protocols, etc. are not appropriate.  discussion of problems with particular
implementations, announcements of releases, sites' misconfigurations, etc.
should be done on mailing lists for the particular implementations.

there is a wg for dns operational practice, dnsop, whose charter can be
found at <http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/dnsop-charter.html>.

discussion of this policy is a topic for the poisson wg.  poisson's charter
can be found at <http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/poisson-charter.html>.

> Message-ID: <20000128015807.6574.qmail@cr.yp.to>
> Mail-Followup-To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Date: 28 Jan 2000 01:58:07 -0000
> From: "D. J. Bernstein" <djb@cr.yp.to>
> To: namedroppers@ops.ietf.org
> Subject: Re: namedroppers mismanagement
> 
> Two weeks ago, I sent namedroppers a message pointing out a security
> flaw in Bush's RFC 2181, and proposing that DNSEXT fix that RFC:
> 
>    http://cr.yp.to/dnscache/namedroppers/20000113013505.28147.qmail@cr.yp.to
> 
> Bush deliberately misdirected my message. Consequently most DNSEXT
> participants did not see my proposal. Some participants subsequently saw
> it through my web pages, but it still hasn't appeared on the list.
> 
> Thomas Narten writes:
> > The Internet ADs are aware that the mailing list is moderated and
> > support the chairs efforts in keeping WG activities focussed on WG
> > chartered deliverables.
> 
> My message is clearly covered by the DNSEXT charter, which includes
> ``protocol issues, including message formats, message handling, and data
> formats.''
> 
> My message is clearly appropriate for the namedroppers list. It is
> clearly not appropriate for the dnsop list, where Bush misdirected it.
> I didn't send it to dnsop; I sent it to namedroppers.
> 
> > We do not see any evidence that one of the WG chairs, Randy
> > Bush's moderating activities "actively and deliberately bias the
> > mailing list discussions".
> 
> Bush prevented my message from reaching the mailing list.
> 
> This is not an isolated event. Bush censored a message from Richard
> Sexton expressing strong support for a proposed protocol improvement.
> Bush censored a message of mine pointing out DNS protocol violations and
> asking interoperability questions. Bush censored a complaint of mine
> about how the mailing list was being managed. See
> 
>    http://cr.yp.to/dnscache/namedroppers.html
> 
> for details.
> 
> Even if Bush bows to pressure and stops interfering with _my_ messages,
> what about everybody else's messages? How is DNSEXT supposed to obtain
> an accurate picture of the views of the mailing list subscribers, when
> Bush actively censors some of those views?
> 
> Take this procedural discussion as an example. DNSEXT participants have
> seen a message from Narten, and will also see this message from me
> unless Bush is trying to dig himself a _really_ deep hole. But is Bush
> going to suppress some messages from other people? How can we trust him?
> 
> ---Dan
> 
